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Tommy Westphall's Mind: A Multiverse Explored

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Another Homicide Crossover [May. 27th, 2009|10:01 am]
Tommy Westphall's Mind: A Multiverse Explored
[mood |pleasedpleased]

According to Tom Myers'  LO:SVU site, the season finale will guest star Carol Kane reprising her role of Gwen Munch, one of John´s ex-wives who appeared previously in H:LOTS ep. #85 ("All is Bright"), way back in 1997.

This is what makes that whole crossover business so interesting.

[User Picture]From: feelinglistless
2009-05-27 08:53 pm (UTC)
Wow, that is an amazing thing isn't it.

It's been a while. How is the list of current shows looking these days. Is the L&O franchise the last gasp? Has the end of Boston Legal also heralded the end of the David E Kelly thread? Or are there some connected show we're yet to see in the UK?
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From: tele_toby
2009-06-30 08:50 am (UTC)
Are any of these shows in the official list yet?

CSI: Crime Scene Investigation
Hidden Palms
Prison Break
Without a Trace

Because if so, we can add the new HBO series "Hung" to the list. All of those shows have in common the use of Finder-Spyder, a search engine. And in the pilot episode of "Hung", Ray used Finder-Spyder to do research on what it takes to be a gigolo.....

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From: (Anonymous)
2009-06-10 01:53 am (UTC)

S'more crossovers

All right, here are some that I've been collecting.
1) Since J.J. Abrams likes to reference his own work, the new Star Trek film contains a mention of Slusho from Alias (in Uhura's first scene).
2) I Dream of Jeannie's cartoon spin-off, Jeannie, crossed over with Scooby-doo, connecting it to Super Friends, the cartoon Addams Family (which is unapologetically not in the same continuity as the sitcom), Speed Buggy, and Josie & the Pussycats.
3) The Beverly Hillbillies' Elly Mae appeared on The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! (which, regardless of cartoon restrictions, ought to be let in as part of the show was live-action). This ties into Captain N: The Game Master (fairly ironic, since the entire concept of the show was different video game characters crossing over and, yet again, the real world, i.e. Tommyverse, was presented as live-action).

Then, there are a few that I'm unsure of.
1) In the episode, A Sense of Community, of The Invisible Man (linked in through The Chronicle which linked to Star Trek), the characters go to The Community (which may or may not be The Village from The Prisoner), meet a retired spy in a bowler hat (who may or may not be the main character from The Avengers) and are told that James Bond is 100 years old. I would like some verification on these crossovers, because I don't entirely trust Wold-Newtonites.
2) Star Trek: Deep Space Nine had a Directory for its Promenade. On this directory, were listed, among others, Jupiter Mining Corporation, Diva Droid Mfg. (both from Red Dwarf), Milliways (from Hitchhiker's Guide), Del Floria's Tailor Shop (from The Man from U.N.C.L.E.), and Tom Servo's Used Robots (from Mystery Science Theater 3000). Would like some help knowing the validity of these references.
3) Did the movie Conspiracy Theory reference the IMF as a real organization? If so, did it also do so for u.n.c.l.e? Again, I don't quite trust Wold-Newtonites.
4) For anyone who isn't anti-cartoon, the famed Flintstones/Bewitched crossover?
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From: (Anonymous)
2009-06-19 06:57 pm (UTC)

Re: S'more crossovers

I totally buy all the stuff in your first section! I never thought of those.

As for the others,
1) The fact that it was the Community and not the Village pretty much says, "parody," to me, which excludes it. NOt sure about the other two details, though.
2) The Promenade Directory is, I'm fairly certain, not meant to be taken seriously.
3) No idea...
4) Works for me. That is to say, I'm against The Simpsons doing crossovers with other shows simply because of its parodic nature (plus, it's non-canon for X-Files), but this doesn't seem like a parody to me. It looks like, smells like, tastes like, so it is a crossover.

Now, I have some questions. Cameos of spaceships in their nonrespective franchises, do they count? On the surface, it comes off as a genuine crossover, but upon closer inspection, no sci-fi franchise appears to take these seriously. Think about this: Firefly (a series with no aliens) had several ships from Star Wars (a franchise ripe with aliens). If that was treated like a crossover and not just a sight gag, wouldn't we expect the Serenity to run into some Wookies or something? Same thing with Battlestar Galactica having the Enterprise in the background of a shot (which, incidentally, was reused for the theme song).

Furthermore, someone once mentioned (and seriously considered) Sesame Street crossing over onto Soul Man. I will admit that this is an incredibly tantilizing idea. However, my research leads me to believe that this appearance functions much like Superman on I Love Lucy. The characters never outrightly state that Big Bird is a puppet on a T.V. show, but there are enough clues in context to imply that he is.

I would like some more information on The Nanny appearing on that Asian show. This could be interesting...

Variety shows should count, but only the recurring sketch that crossed over. By that I mean, only characters from a sketch crossing over onto a non-variety show should count, not vice-versa as vice-versa is always a parody.

Poobala (and those who think likewise), if you're reading this, why shouldn't we accept implied crossovers. Sure, Lost never said what paper factory they were talking about, but it was clearly a reference to The Office. Okay, so it wasn't established beyond a doubt that all of the shows on Blackout Monday were about the same blackout, but context makes that fairly likely.

To quote the illustious philosopher,
"That's all I have to say about that."
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From: johnmunch
2009-06-20 04:46 pm (UTC)

Spaceships and Sesame Street and Little Yellow Men

Ragarding spaceship cameos, I vote 'No'. This is steering too close to Toobworld generosity (hi, Toby ;-)). Our friend RAF is counting archival footage as crossover material ... same thing: No. But have fun, anyway.

There is an Oz/Seinfeld crossover sketch in a SNL episode. Tempting, very tempting ...

And a 'live version' of Homer Simpson got killed in an X-Files episode (the 5th season premiere with Gibson Praise, if I remember correctly).

Re Sesame Street: If it's characters it works for me, but Sesame Street opens up a whole new dimension of insanity. Just consider the numerous international versions!

Speaking of which: Anybody knowing anything about Munch's PCE appearance??? Apparently, they are on the verge of cancelling it.

I feel a Wanderers update coming - gotta go.
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From: (Anonymous)
2009-06-22 10:06 pm (UTC)

Re: Spaceships and Sesame Street and Little Yellow Men

Just looked into the "Bob Newhart Show"/"ALF" crossover, and you might be surprised by the results. Apparently, it comes awfully close to a crossover, but gets blown out of the water by this statement of ALF's, "Of course I know about psychology. I used to watch the old Bob Newhart Show." To paraphrase Jim Carey, riddle me this, riddle me that, but doesn't that shoot your crossover down flat?

Also, I couldn't find any verification for "Providence" mentioning St. Eligius. However, in the episode that it allegedly did occur, I found a crossover with "Passions," which is already in! Weird, huh?
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From: (Anonymous)
2009-07-09 03:54 am (UTC)

Re: Re: Spaceships and Sesame Street and Little Yellow Men

I would like to invite any and all who read this to visit my Tommy site, The Crossover Hub. I also would appreciate any helpful comments you might have. Here's the address:
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From: tele_toby
2009-07-12 08:21 am (UTC)

Re: Re: Spaceships and Sesame Street and Little Yellow Men

I checked it out at work. When I get home in the morning, I'll delve into it further and hopefully find a way to get back to you. So there's that suggestion - I didn't see any way to comment or send you feedback at the site.

But I did like the stuff I read so far, well mapped out and presented and a fun read, even for this (somewhat) anti-Westphallian....
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From: (Anonymous)
2009-07-25 04:03 am (UTC)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Spaceships and Sesame Street and Little Yellow Men

All right. I've been puzzling over this for a while, but I have come the conclusion that there are several sci-fi (especially Trek-related) crossovers that we're just ignoring. Here's my partial list:
*A shuttle named the Indiana Jones was aboard the Enterprise-D.
*Bothans, Quarren, and Alderaan (all from Star Wars...bite me, anti-movie people) were mentioned and/or appeared throughout later Treks.
*An episode of Voyager made reference to tylium, Borays, and Ovions, all of which are from the original Battlestar Galactica.
*I believe someone already mentioned Capt. Pike being paged on Buck Rogers.
*An episode of seaquest DSV (sic) portrayed a plaque commemorating the launch of the Nomad probe, from the Trek ep, The Changeling just like it creator Jackson Roykirk.
*It's a bit dicey, but the Promenade Directory lists Diet Smith Corporation (Dick Tracy), Tom Servo's Used Robots (Mystery Science Theater 3000), the Forbin Project (Colossus, already in my list due to a mention in Team Knight Rider), Banzai Institute (Buckaroo...big surprise), Del Floria's Tailor Shop (man from uncle...are there spies on Deep Space Nine?), Spacely Space Sprockets (The Jetsons. Bite me, anti-cartoonists), Cavor's Gravity Devices (First Men in the Moon), Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems (Buckaroo...again), Diva Droid Corporation (Red Dwarf), Jupiter Mining Corporation (yet again, Red Dwarf, ladies and gentlemen), and Milliways (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy).
*Containers marked, "Bellus," and "Zyra" were in the cave where Genesis was tested in Wrath of Kahn, both referring to The Day the Earth Stood Still.
*Cavorite, an element discovered in The First Men in the Moon, is on Next Gen's Periodic Table of Elements.
*The crew of the Heart of Gold (Hitchhiker's), apparently now working for Sirius Cybernetics, signed a certificate for Humanoid of the Year.

I'm kind of riding the fence for now on whether or not cameoes of spaceships should count, mainly because it would mean both Battlestars coexisting.
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From: (Anonymous)
2009-07-28 12:16 am (UTC)

Re: Re: Spaceships and Sesame Street and Little Yellow Men

johnmunch speaking - darn log-in is acting up again.

I just found a TV movie, JOYS, broadcast on March 5, 1976. It stars several dozen (!) real-life comedians (among them Groucho Marx in his last part) ending as face-down floaters in Bob Hope´s swimming pool. Several police detectives are investigating:

Angie Dickinson (as Police Woman Pepper Anderson),
Mike Connors (as Joe Mannix),
Jim Hutton (as Ellery Queen),
David Janssen (as Harry O[rwell])
Telly Savalas (as Lt. Kojak),
and Abe Vigoda (as Lt. Phil Fish of Barney Miller Fame).

The Westphall connection is established by the Mannix character, also appearing in Diagnosis:Murder, The Lucy Show, and his own show.
Furthermore, Fish had an eponymous show, and Pepper Anderson debuted in an episode of Police Story, an anthology show.

So, JOYS brings in seven more shows. The list grows ever longer ...
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From: johnmunch
2009-07-28 12:22 pm (UTC)

Re: Spaceships and Sesame Street and Little Yellow Men

Almost forgot: Dickinson as Pepper also appears in RINGO.
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From: (Anonymous)
2009-08-04 10:25 pm (UTC)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Spaceships and Sesame Street and Little Yellow Men

I just found two more possible crossovers lurking in George & Leo. In the same episode that had crossovers with The Bob Newhart Show and Newhart (appropriately called The Cameo Show)), they also implicitely had characters from Taxi and Dear John. I just thought I'd mention this.
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From: johnmunch
2009-08-04 10:52 pm (UTC)

George & Leo

"The Cameo Show" is known to us, but just from guides, not from the screen.

Have you seen it and can you clarify the cameos for us?
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From: tele_toby
2009-12-12 07:58 am (UTC)

Re: George & Leo

Sorry it took so long to respond to this.

I saw the episode and everybody who participated (I think Suzanne Pleshette was the only holdout) played characters other than those established in the previous series. Tom Poston, for example, was a traffic cop who pulled them over.

But at the very end, Larry, Darryl, and Darryl did show up as "themselves" and just barely missed meeting Newhart's character.

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From: (Anonymous)
2009-09-04 10:07 pm (UTC)

Stop! It's wiki time!

Everybody! You're now invited to my Tommy Westphall wiki. Please become members and edit it. That's how these things work. Here's the address:

With your help, this can become something amazing.
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From: (Anonymous)
2009-12-02 03:19 pm (UTC)

Hey I think you guys missed something.

I was looking through the Tommyverse website and on the cross reference chart, and I noticed something. The Battlestar Galactica/Firefly crossover doesn't work.

A firefly class ship appears in Battlestar Galactica. That means that Firefly has to exist in a realm where Battlestar Galactica exists, but that doesn't mean Firefly is part of that realm, especially assuming Battlestar Galactica is a Tommyverse resident. Think about it, for something to be in the Tommyverse it has to reference something that is in the Tommyverse, not vice versa. Firefly makes no references to BSG, which means it does not necessarily exist in the Firefly universe. What would make more sense is that Tommy saw an episode of Firefly and put it into his own universe. That's just like in That 70's Show where they watch Star Trek, that doesn't mean that the two shows exist on the same timeline, it means one is aware of the other. In that instance, if Star Trek exists only in the Tommyverse, so does That 70's Show, because how else could they be watching it? However, if the connection were someone on Star Trek watched That 70's Show (less likely) it would not have the same result, that just means that in the universe Tommy himself exists in, there is That 70's Show, most likely as a T.V. show, and having seen it he received that input and made it part of his dream. The show has to reference something that doesn't exist for it to also not exist, having something that doesn't exist reference something else doesn't make that thing not exist. If I wrote a story in the Star Trek universe where Kirk plays Solitaire that doesn't mean Solitaire doesn't exist in the real world and only in the Tommyverse. I fear many of your connections work this way and if this is true you would have to restructure a lot of your crossovers.
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From: (Anonymous)
2010-02-16 10:22 pm (UTC)

Re: Hey I think you guys missed something.

However, if Tommy incorporated elements either from television or his own reality into his daydream, wouldn't that then mean that they were a part of his daydream, regardless of whether or not they existed otherwise? Besides, it is established that Tommy is daydreaming these things. Yet, nowhere is it implied that some elements (other than what was seen in the ending of St. Elsewhere) are borrowed from what he has observed. I realize that this sounds like an argument from silence, but I'm going a different direction with it: Occam's Razor. It is much simpler to reason that everything that appears in Tommy's head is original to that realm of existence rather than just supposing that he stole it from somewhere else. Thereby, it is much more likely to be correct.
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